So much is being made recently around the web about the size of the 2007 kings. From a Pro perspective, do you guys think the LM is set up for a crash similar to that of LH from a few years ago? Are the kings really that much smaller this year? In nearly every post I read something to the order of...
"We marked tons of bait...just couldn't get them to go..."
Are the elements in place for this to happen, or does everyone need to read Chicken Little again??
Your thoughts are appreciated...
My opinion (no Pro here) is that this spring has been one filled with major weather changes that have drastically affected the king fishing to this point. The one particular situation was the huge SW blow that went through the Great Lakes region during the week of June 6-10. Any chance of the lake setting up early was surely dashed by that weather pattern. Add to that the seemingly large amount of bait in the water...and it seems to me that guys are fishing for fish that are very well-fed...which can make things difficult, as we all know.
Thanks,
BFG
Official Ohio Delegate to Team Heavy Super-Sized Fishing Specialists bfg@educatedangler.com
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Clarke , we fished Ludington last weekend , fishing was slow but we managed to boat some nice Kings , up to about 18 pounds , along with a couple in the 5 to 8 pound range. I can't really say the size of the Kings is any smaller this year , at least not yet. Seems like some nice sized kings have been weighed in at the tournaments so far. We did not mark much bait though , some think maybe the bait was in close and spawning but we did seem to mark some stuff on the bottom that looked like it could be bait.The fish we cleaned had nothing in their stomachs that we could see. I am not ready to say the sky is falling but I think we need to keep a carefull eye out and be proactive instead of reactive. I think the Mich. DNR is also taking the same approach , keeping a close watch on the fishery and watching for signs of a problem. Just my opinion. Hope the fishery continues to be good and that it comes back on Lake Huron as well.
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No pro,just an old salt..The few Kings I've managed to box have been heavier compared to same lenght fish as last year. The nicer one from Racine this past weekend had 5 tails sticking out of its throat..all stomachs were full on the ones I cleaned. I also talked with a very old veteran of the lake last night who had a really nice box of Kings on Monday out of Port washington. His fish were full of freshly eaten Smelt..His thought is that these guys were out in the 400' water feeding on them. I know I have marked more bait this year then the past 5 years in the area I usually fish.
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Last year and this year we have had times with charter captains on our boat and both fish finders lit up with bait and not a hit. I have 2 ideas and neither one meens much but either the fish are so full or they cant find our bait. When the rigger is shaking from so much bait seems the fish are hard to come by.I thought I had seen the mother load of bait last year but this year in GH a couple weeks ago for over a mile we had bait stacked 20 to 30 feet and bait balls every place. We have 2 good fish finders so its not like they are both wrong. Me thats another story.
We need to be Clarked!!!
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I think I understand what you mean by balanced Vista but perhaps you could clarify.
For me it's clear that the fishery has been "unbalanced" for many years out of the ports we fish - with Kings being the predominant species. I think this is echoed by the catch rates from the MI Charter fleet over the last years. I will quantify this a bit in saying that we are fishing for kings most of the time too - we aren't running 12 to 15 miles offshore where I'm sure we could be getting a good mix of steelhead out of Ludington. But based on the King stocking cuts I think it echoes an over-balance of Kings.
For me this year has had more balance then any other as far as number of lakers, steelhead, and cohos caught. Some of that has to do with the areas we have been fishing spending more time in the more southern parts of Lake M including St Joe and South Haven.
As far as fish health and size goes Clark I would have to say they have not be any smaller - or less healthy - and if I had to go with my gut I would say that they are more healthy and better sized thus far.
As the season continues we will see how things progress and I think its prudent to continue to keep a close eye on the fishery. Keep in mind that our catch rates should be falling based on the stocking cuts which was part of the goal as catch rates have been the highest on record over the last few years.
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I fished all of last week from Muskegon to Port Washington, to Sheboygan, then back up to Ludington. The size of the kings seems to be larger than last year on average, and there is a TON of bait in the water.
My wife landed a 20# 9oz. king aboard the Salmonhead on Friday evening out of Ludington. Very well fed fish indeed.
BFG
Official Ohio Delegate to Team Heavy Super-Sized Fishing Specialists bfg@educatedangler.com
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WE DO SOME WORK FOR THE NOAA SURVEY BOATS AND THE WEATHER LADY THAT RUNS THE BOAT WE LAST WORKED ON TOLD ME THE LAKE AS A WHOLE IS COLDER THAN IT HAS BEEN SINCE THEY HAVE BEEN TACKING RECORDS . APPARENTLY SHE SAYS THE COLD WEATHER WE HAD LAST JANUARY AND FEBRUARY COUPLED WITH THE HIGH WINDS THAT DUMPED ALL THE SNOW IN BUFFALO NEW YORK ALLOWED THE COLD TO PENETRATE DOWN TO DEEPER DEPTHS THAN EVER RECORDER I BELIVE THIS MOVED FISH AND BAIT OFF OF THEIR NORMAL PATERNS AND PLACES THIS SPRING ON THE SOUTH END CHICAGO AND INDIANA WATERS WE HAD SUPER CLEAR WATER ALMOST SCARY CLEAN LIKE NO PLANKTON AND ALGIE IN IT AT ALL FUELLING THE CRASHING THEORY THE LAKE TOOK A BUNCH OF EXTRA TIME TO WARM UP BEFORE THE COHO SHOWED UP BUT ONCE THE WATER TURNED A LITTLE GREEN ON OUR END OF THE LAKE. WE HAVE ENJOYED SOME OF THE BEST FISHING WE HAVE HAD IN 10-20 YEARS STILL OFFSHORE A BIT BUT NOT AS BAD AS LAST YEAR LIFE IS GOOD
I THINK WE CAN BLAME ALL THE EDUCATION THE ANGLERS ARE GETTING ON THIS WEB SITE FOR THE CATCH RATES GOING UP lol
AND BY THE WAY HAS ANY ONE THANKED THE GUYS AT EDUCATED ANGLER LATELY FOR PUTTING ALL THIS TOGETHER THANKS GREG AND THE CREW ! GREAT WEB SITE !
No matter how I try, I can't help but read the posts on other boards from members that fished L. Huron for years..and witnessed the rise and subsequent fall of their fishery.
Maybe coincidental...but man...I talked to a guy the other day that said "L. Michigan is setting up EXACTLY the way that L. Huron did in the early 2000's...tons of smaller kings...full coolers everywhere...and then nothing...."
For now...I'm enjoying the great fishing on L. Michigan..and forever am hoping that the stocking changes will benefit the ecosystem and the fishery for many years.
BFG
Official Ohio Delegate to Team Heavy Super-Sized Fishing Specialists bfg@educatedangler.com
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I was fishing Lake Huron prior to the crash up until 2001 and compare it to Lake M. I think it's prudent to be cautious about Lake M but what we are seeing now is in no way the same in my estimation.
The "little fish" we are getting now are way bigger then the "little fish" we were getting on Lake Huron. The amount of bait our fish have had in them this year has been better then recent years past in my opinion and the winding down of Lake H we hardly found full guts. The amount of bait that we have been marking from St Joe to Ludington over the season has been more then I've seen in years past also - obviously that could be being in the right place at the right time - but this year we have consistently brought fish in with double digit alewives in their guts.
Some people are calling the increase of Lake Trout catches on the east side of Lake M as an indicator, and that may be true, but it may also be an indicator of the offshore hatchery beginning to do it's job andf the fact that they figured out that they like eating gobies!
If I had to guess if there is a size issue for Kings on Lake M it still revolves around the overabundance of kings in Lake M - consider that we won't see the effects of the 25% lakewide reduction in plants in mature fish for another year or two. Addiitonally as the east side of Lake M generates natural reproduction I would guess we will get a smaller class of fish just be sheer genetics. Consider we aren't at the weir picking the best and brightest to milk eggs from - we are allowing nature to take its course.
There is no question however that all our lakes are under seige from foreign invaders and continue to find new ones on a regular basis. Again keep contacting your governmental officials and let them know that this is a major issue. Lets hope we can keep nursing Lake M along and avoid a Lake H scenario.
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after attending the SeaGrant meeting in Ludington this past Saturday January 5, 2008 it came a bit more clear to what is going on in the lake. Overally the prey biomass is at a record low and predators are pretty high. In addition, the adult prey seemed to be congregated along certain sections of the lake and nearly absent in others, like the north end. The strong holds appeared to be from about south haven to little point, another blip off ludington and some more about the middle of the lake on the WI side. Also, the north end of the lake had jack. That data corresponds well with what I saw personally in my excursions. Time will tell. Greg, Tom, Rick, Lance Howard could all possibly expand on this, as they were all there as well. I did Not take notes this year.
www.salmonheadcharters.com
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Paul, Did they compare Lake Mi setting up to follow Lake H? Also, what was said in regards to the number of nets by the tribe off Manistee? Thanks for your time.
Bill Brock Semper FIsh Sportfishing Team Boat.. Just Right
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as far as the lake setting up like lake H did i think only time will tell on that battle, which i hope it doesn't. the good part about the outlook of lake M is that a lot of this is being caught before a crash as opposed to lake H where it crashed and then they were looking in to it. a big part of the problem was in lake H 80% of the fish were NATURAL born fish. so this caused a huge number of fish to be in the lake becuase they were unaware of this big %. i'm not sure exactly what % they had thought but it was a very small %. so there were millions more salmon in that lake than they thought. lake M is currently said to be about 55/45 with 55% of the fish being natural fish. of course this is only part of the problem lake H had. certainly a big 1. as far as the prey base being at lows thats obviously not a good thing to hear, BUT, i believe in 05 they had record hatches of alewive and its only natural to see a decrease in prey when they have such a great hatch a few years previous. dyporia (not sure on the spelling and the mysis (not sure on that spelling either) are the 2 main food sources for alewive dyporia being the food of choice they are much higher in energy than the mysis, and the presence of both of those are dwindling a lot faster than i would like to see. now they are trying to coincide their plantings with the amount of natural born fish to get the proper predator/prey ratio the lake can support but that is difficult to do because they have said that the amount of natural born fish can change by anywhere up to 5x each and every year given certain situations.
IMO the single thing that has had the biggest negative effect are the damn zebes.
i didn't take in everything about the nets but from what it sounded there won't be anyless of them out there. they actually said that most of the comm fisherman were only using 4-6 nets and they are allowed to use up 12 nets per permit. so potentially could get worse. the others can chime in more on that.
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